Some talks with Sri Ratan Lal

Question: How can we realize when we leave the ego aside?

Ratan Lal: Once the mind is free of contents, it will merge in the Self. Actually, it does not need to merge in the Self, because it is the Self. It is the mind that creates a sence of separation from the Self. When it renounces its selfish tendencies and other bad habits, once it is purified, it becomes the Self because it is the Self. It is all mental game that the mind plays with itself. But, one time or other, we will have to stop playing game, which is the cause of ignorance.

Q: Does it mean to remain observer, as the witness?

RL: This is one of the practices. The mind has three states: the waking state, the dram state, and the dreamless deep sleep state. The Self or Counsciousness as Pure Consciousness is ever present during all the three states of mind. But only during the waking state can we make some effort.

If the become the witness, if we observe the thoughts in the mind, this is good practice. But finnaly when we understand that the three states belong to the mind, and the mind itself is a shadow and is not real, who is to witness what? When there is nothing to be witnessed, also the witness will disappear. Then the Self or Counsciousness alone remains.

Q: I have experienced it. But how to prolong it?

RL: Who is the one who wants to remain in that state? The mind doesn’t want to accept that this state is permanent. It is permanent, whether the mind is there or not. It is the mind which obstructs the exprience of that state. It resists being left aside.

Q: What can we do when the mind is quiet and one has entered into deep contact with oneself, but suddenly different feelings such as fear, hapiness, or anxiety appear.

RL: This is again to go from one mental state to another. It has nothing to do with the Atma, the Self. You must look upon feelings as part of the mind. But the feeling of the eternal Presence of the Self, the Consciousness, is not part of the mind. This state is permanent, it is always present, and everything that is permanentl it also changeless, unaffected. It does not have fear nor joy. Being beyond the mind, it is also beyond the pair of opposites. Your question is referring again to a state of mind. It is not the experience of the Self. Everything that appears and disappears belongs to the mind. That which is beyond mind does neither appear nor disappear.


From “Love and Purity”, 2003


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